Quote Of The Day 2: Toyota Tales Edition

by Edward Niedermeyer

Published: April 7th, 2010

The Detroit News has just published a quote that allegedly comes from a January 16 email from Toyota Motor Sales USA group vice president for environmental and public affairs Irv Miller to “company officials in Japan.” Miller’s quote reads:

I hate to break this to you but WE HAVE a tendency for MECHANICAL failure in accelerator pedals of a certain manufacturer on certain models. We are not protecting our customers by keeping this quiet. The time to hide on this one is over. We better just hope that they can get NHTSA to work with us in coming with a workable solution that does not put us out of business.

The DetN says Toyota refused comment on the quote, but doesn’t disclose how it obtained the email. If we had to hazard a guess at the source of the email, we’d say that one of the legion of lawyers currently suing Toyota might know something about it [UPDATE: The Freep says “the e-mail was among the 70,000 pages of documents NHTSA has collected as part of its investigation”]. Several lawyers are already gloating to Automotive News [sub] that NHTSA’s decision to pursue the maximum fine for Toyota’s unintended acceleration problem will help their cases (though this is hardly guaranteed), and they are desperately seeking any kind of evidence of a Toyota coverup. Meanwhile, Toyota’s UA-related recalls aren’t even over yet, as Reuters reports that the world’s largest automaker has only just recalled 13,000 Camrys from the Korean market. But considering that GM won’t have the much-hyped brake-override “failsafe” for unintended acceleration on all of its vehicles until 2012 [via AN [sub]], it will be tough to paint Toyota as being a complete outlier on automotive safety. In fact, the only thing that seems certain about this story is that there are million of reasons for lawyers and reporters to keep chipping away at a phenomenon that seems to largely have been a product of operator error.

#Lawsuit #PR #Quality #Recall #Safety #Toyota #UnintendedAcceleration

Edward Niedermeyer

More by Edward Niedermeyer

Comments

Join the conversation

5 of 60 comments

PeteMoran on Apr 08, 2010

@ carperson Are we talking the same terminology here? What are you referring to as a "witness" signal? Are you talking about ground level monitoring?

Like Reply
- See 2 previous
- CarPerson on Apr 09, 2010
  
  To check the validity of a signal, control and instrument designers can include a second signal, often referred to as a “witness” signal. It is safe to presume 100% of all electronically controlled throttle pedals have two signals from the pedal to the ECU, one of them a witness signal. For ensuring the safety and integrity of the control system, the ECU compares the two signals. If they calculate out as a match, the process continues. If they do not match, a fault is indicated. In vehicles this may include illuminating a dash lamp and branching to “limp” mode. Draw the two signals on the same graph, signal vs. pedal position. You do NOT want to see parallel lines. This design is too easily defeated in the real world with the additional danger of the fault going undetected. One has to question the skill of the control designer or the technical management that allows the use of this design. Toyota and a few others are using a parallel witness signal from the throttle pedal. Liner vs. non-linear signals each has advocates, each having valid points. Consider it more a secondary point of discussion. Don’t let anyone tell you they have a “robust” design then show you two parallel lines on a graph. They don’t.
  
  Like
- YotaCarFan on Apr 09, 2010
  
  Just b/c the two accelerator signals differ by a constant voltage does not mean the design is not robust. The chosen voltages are such that realistic failure modes (short between the two signals, short of one or both signals to ground, or short of one or both signals to 12v power) will always result in the two signals failing to differ by the expected voltage delta, and thus being detected by the ECM.
  
  Like
- CarPerson on Apr 12, 2010
  
  @ YotaCarFan A constant voltage delta is NOT a robust design. Coupled with the fact the delta, in the Toyota design, can freely vary over a surprisingly large value, it is a design that belongs in a cheap RC toy, not a real vehicle. BTW, The discussion relates to trapping any and all shorts between the control and witness signals, not shorts to power or ground.
  
  Like
PeteMoran on Apr 08, 2010

@ Angainor You're forgetting another Escalade SUA incident that hasn't received attention from the NHTSA; http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/golf/8383782.stm

Like Reply

Recent Comments

Whynotaztec Like any other lease offer it makes sense to compare it to a purchase and see where you end up. The math isn’t all that hard and sometimes a lease can make sense, sometimes it can’t. the tough part with EVs now is where is the residual or trade in value going to be in 3 years?
Rick T. "If your driving conditions include near-freezing temps for a few months of the year, seek out a set of all-seasons. But if sunshine is frequent and the spectre of 60F weather strikes fear into the hearts of your neighbourhood, all-seasons could be a great choice." So all-seasons it is, apparently!
1995 SC Should anyone here get a wild hair and buy this I have the 500 dollar tool you need to bleed the rear brakes if you have to crack open the ABS. Given the state you will. I love these cars (obviously) but trust me, as an owner you will be miles ahead to shell out for one that was maintained. But properly sorted these things will devour highway miles and that 4.6 will run forever and should be way less of a diva than my blown 3.8 equipped one. (and forget the NA 3.8...140HP was no match for this car).As an aside, if you drive this you will instantly realize how ergonomically bad modern cars are.These wheels look like the 17's you could get on a Fox Body Cobra R. I've always had it in the back of my mind to get a set in the right bolt pattern so I could upgrade the brakes but I just don't want to mess up the ride. If that was too much to read, from someone intamately familiar with MN-12's, skip this one. The ground effects alone make it worth a pass. They are not esecially easy to work on either.
Macca This one definitely brings back memories - my dad was a Ford-guy through the '80s and into the '90s, and my family had two MN12 vehicles, a '93 Thunderbird LX (maroon over gray) purchased for my mom around 1995 and an '89 Cougar LS (white over red velour, digital dash) for my brother's second car acquired a year or so later. The Essex V6's 140 hp was wholly inadequate for the ~3,600 lb car, but the look of the T-Bird seemed fairly exotic at the time in a small Midwest town. This was of course pre-modern internet days and we had no idea of the Essex head gasket woes held in store for both cars.The first to grenade was my bro's Cougar, circa 1997. My dad found a crate 3.8L and a local mechanic replaced it - though the new engine never felt quite right (rough idle). I remember expecting something miraculous from the new engine and then realizing that it was substandard even when new. Shortly thereafter my dad replaced the Thunderbird for my mom and took the Cougar for a new highway commute, giving my brother the Thunderbird. Not long after, the T-Bird's 3.8L V6 also suffered from head gasket failure which spelled its demise again under my brother's ownership. The stately Cougar was sold to a family member and it suffered the same head gasket fate with about 60,000 miles on the new engine.Combine this with multiple first-gen Taurus transmission issues and a lemon '86 Aerostar and my dad's brand loyalty came to an end in the late '90s with his purchase of a fourth-gen Maxima. I saw a mid-90s Thunderbird the other day for the first time in ages and it's still a fairly handsome design. Shame the mechanicals were such a letdown.
FreedMike It's a little rough...😄